Topic: School Board Elections This Fall

[wtfreak]

For those interested in reviewing whether or not Kirk is an eligible candidate for the School Board, I found this link to the actual document/decision on Paula Barone's website:

Petro’s opinion, No. 2003-010 reads, “The positions of member of the board of education of a local school district and principal of a school in a joint vocational district that includes the territory of the local school district are incompatible.”

http://www.paulabarone.com/Site/News_Releases_files/2003-010.pdf

It looks pretty clear to me.

The question is: "will another person place this town in a position to have to pay attorney's a lot of money in order to prove something that the law has already established?"..............ughhhhhhhhh!

I cannot find the Mount Vernon News story online from September 29, 2009 where Mr Kirk responds.  From my subscription:

"Kirk said there are three principals at the career center:Principal of curriculum, principal of student services and principal of facilities.  All three positions formerly had the title of supervisor; job descriptions were recently changed to reflect the title of principal.  The duties of each position did not change.  Kirk said he believes the position of principal as noted in Petro's opinion refers to the position at the center held by Bernie Pachmayer, that of superintendent of the career center.

'I am familiar with this case, and when you come down to it and look at the duties of principal, you have to equate that with the position of director, ' said Kirk.

'The question should be, is this candidate eligible to run? I am 100 percent eligible to run, ' he said, 'If I run and win, then at that time someone could challenge it, so I guess when we get to that bridge, we'll cross it.'

Regarding some of the specific issues cited in the opinion, Kirk said he sits in on preliminary interviews with teachers and makes recommendations, but he does not make the final decision as to whom to hire.  Regarding attendance, he oversees a committee which deals with students who exceed the number of days allowed to be missed

'I feel at this time there is no conflict at all,' he said, 'I hire nobody.  On attendance, I have absolutely nothing to do with the input of data; the only thing I do is oversee a board that oversees waivers or denials.'"


*****


Maybe things have changed, but I seem to remember that the hiring of teachers isn't ultimately the principal's decision.  The principal recommends someone to the superintendent who in turn decides whether to pass the name on to the school board who ultimately hires or not.  Sounds very much like what Mr Kirk describes his role.

As for his role in attendance, his role on the committee to determine waivers sounds like he is involved directly in attendance matters.


Sounds to me like he's taken a page from President Clinton's book ... it depends on your definition of principal.

After reading the ruling I found this interesting:

education. See id. at 2-277.
Other conflicts of interest may arise because the person, as a member of the board of
education of the local school district, may have to deliberate, discuss, negotiate, or vote on
matters that affect directly or indirectly the joint vocational school district that employs him as a
school principal. Pursuant to R.C. 3311.217, a board of education of a local school district that
participates in a joint vocational school district may vote to dissolve the joint vocational school
district. R.C. 3313.90 also authorizes boards of education of local school districts to provide
vocational education to pupils by establishing and maintaining a vocational education program,
being a member of a joint vocational school district, or contracting for vocational education with
a joint vocational school district or another school district. Thus, in his capacity as a member of
the board of education, a person serving as a principal of a school in a joint vocational district
would be in a position to determine whether the local school district, the joint vocational school
district, or some other entity will provide vocational education to the pupils of the local school
district. See generally R.C. 3317.17(A) (the board of education of a local school district may
apply to the Department of Education for funds, provided the district after incurring the debt
implements a change in the manner of providing vocational education to the students of the
district).

and

If both the board of education for the local school district and the joint vocational school
district contemplate submitting tax levies or bond issues for additional funding, it is conceivable
that a member of a board of education of a local school district who serves as a school principal
in the joint vocational school district would be subject to divided loyalties while deliberating,

http://www.paulabarone.com/Site/News_Releases_files/2003-010.pdf

[dhw]

Might be interest to some to go to knoxpages and listen to Thompson.

[wonderin]

I feel the same as this poster:

http://www.knoxpages.com/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=11186&whichpage=4

truthbknown
 Posted - Oct 05 2009 :  2:00:11 PM     
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
 
My take on the Thompson interview-

1. I don't think anyone stated they had a problem with him being friends with Freshwater- it was the council he is on. He states he has friends who work for him, I doubt his company would approve of him being on a committee to raise money for an employee who is suing his company. That is MY issue with it.

2. BOE is a public office NOT a political office. Political affiliation has nothing to do with BOE election.

3. The statement that he is a Christian, so he doesn't "align" with evolution is very telling to me. Lumping all believers in Christ together is not what he should be doing. I know many "Christian" religions that DO accept evolution, which is contrary to his beliefs. I would have preferred he say His beliefs and evolution don't align. Being Christian has nothing to do with it.

This is, to me ,why religion shouldn't be in our public schools. Which brand of religion do we teach? How about we let the parents decide!
 

[seabiscuit]

It was noted on Knox Pages that after the interview conducted with Steve Thompson that the Council for Free Expression website page which listed the names for the people involved was no longer accessible through the Bible On The Desk website.  I had it in my cache so I was able to locate the page. It is copied below:

http://www.bibleonthedesk.com/communitycouncil.php

The Community Council For Free Expression first came together in April 2008 as a “steering committee” and a voice from the Mt. Vernon Community to support Middle School Science Teacher, John Freshwater, in his stand to keep the Bible on his desk. The group soon felt that the issue was much bigger than just John Freshwater so they adopted the name “Community Council For Free Expression.”

The leaders of the CCFE all live in the Mount Vernon, Ohio, area. They come from diverse backgrounds and churches, but all support John in his battle to keep the Bible on his desk where it has been for the last 21 years. Even though the Mount Vernon School Board has levied other allegations against John in order to move the debate away from the Bible on the desk the CCFE believe that he will be fully exonerated. Then the issue will move back to the Bible on the desk.

The following are the leaders of the Community Council For Free Expression:

Don Matolyak is Pastor of Trinity Assembly of God in Mt. Vernon and has been John Freshwater’s Pastor for more than 14 years.

Dan Whisner is Pastor of Colonial City Baptist Church in Mt. Vernon. He also leads the Ohio Legislative Watch.

Thom Collier is the Ohio State Representative for the 90th District and local business man.

William Kepko is an attorney in Mt. Vernon, OH.

Bill Fulda is Pastor of the First Church of God in Mt. Vernon and serves as President of the Knox Network of Christian Ministries.

Steve Thompson is a Vice President with the Ariel Corporation and has lived his entire life in the Mt. Vernon area.

Dewey Morrow is a retired Pastor & District Supervisor with the Foursquare Gospel Church.

The Community Council For Free Expression is a non-profit corporation and has developed a Legal Defense Fund to help with John Freshwater’s legal expenses. Those wishing to donate to this fund can give via credit card on this web site or write your check to

The Community Council For Free Expression
c/o Trinity Assembly of God
1051 Beech Street
Mt. Vernon, OH 43050


Of interest are the statements at the beginning that I've put in bold. 

My question is why this page "disappeared" much like the Minutemen website for Dave Daubenmire's group, Minutemen, disappeared after Freshwater's case received national attention.  Looks a little like efforts to try to "cover up" anything that might  let people know what the real agenda is.

[Steve.Deserved.Better]

Scrubbing is done all the time.   I've supported people who I believed in, only to find out they weren't who I thought they were..  As disappointing as this is, because your name is also on the line, you have to learn to admit the mistake and move on.

Not to insert politics into this, but we give politicians passes all the time for not being transparent.    If this was taken off, couldn't it have mean they no longer support all of it or part of it?   

[wtfreak]

Well that could be ,however, that isn't the impression I got when I listened to his interview.

[phred]

It was noted on Knox Pages that after the interview conducted with Steve Thompson that the Council for Free Expression website page which listed the names for the people involved was no longer accessible through the Bible On The Desk website.  I had it in my cache so I was able to locate the page. It is copied below:

http://www.bibleonthedesk.com/communitycouncil.php

The Community Council For Free Expression first came together in April 2008 as a “steering committee” and a voice from the Mt. Vernon Community to support Middle School Science Teacher, John Freshwater, in his stand to keep the Bible on his desk. The group soon felt that the issue was much bigger than just John Freshwater so they adopted the name “Community Council For Free Expression.”

The leaders of the CCFE all live in the Mount Vernon, Ohio, area. They come from diverse backgrounds and churches, but all support John in his battle to keep the Bible on his desk where it has been for the last 21 years. Even though the Mount Vernon School Board has levied other allegations against John in order to move the debate away from the Bible on the desk the CCFE believe that he will be fully exonerated. Then the issue will move back to the Bible on the desk.

The following are the leaders of the Community Council For Free Expression:

Don Matolyak is Pastor of Trinity Assembly of God in Mt. Vernon and has been John Freshwater’s Pastor for more than 14 years.

Dan Whisner is Pastor of Colonial City Baptist Church in Mt. Vernon. He also leads the Ohio Legislative Watch.

Thom Collier is the Ohio State Representative for the 90th District and local business man.

William Kepko is an attorney in Mt. Vernon, OH.

Bill Fulda is Pastor of the First Church of God in Mt. Vernon and serves as President of the Knox Network of Christian Ministries.

Steve Thompson is a Vice President with the Ariel Corporation and has lived his entire life in the Mt. Vernon area.

Dewey Morrow is a retired Pastor & District Supervisor with the Foursquare Gospel Church.

The Community Council For Free Expression is a non-profit corporation and has developed a Legal Defense Fund to help with John Freshwater’s legal expenses. Those wishing to donate to this fund can give via credit card on this web site or write your check to

The Community Council For Free Expression
c/o Trinity Assembly of God
1051 Beech Street
Mt. Vernon, OH 43050


Of interest are the statements at the beginning that I've put in bold. 

My question is why this page "disappeared" much like the Minutemen website for Dave Daubenmire's group, Minutemen, disappeared after Freshwater's case received national attention.  Looks a little like efforts to try to "cover up" anything that might  let people know what the real agenda is.

           Excellent review and documentation.

           I would characterize the disappearances as
           a revelation from the interview that said
           it was time to keep a low profile on these
           real motives.   imho

[phred]

       



         But, in my opinion, our community has already read
         it all, viewed it, discussed it.  The water in all it's
         truth has long since Day One flopped over the dam
         for the conscientious to know.

         And this Letter to the Editor of the MVNews said it
         well. 

 
        From my paid subscription of the MVNews
         Monday, October 12, 2009, p. 4
         


         Editor, the News:
         

         I was surprised to hear on local radio that Mount Vernon
         school board candidate, Steve Thompson, was running
         for the board primarily because of his deep concern about
         the financial situation of our school district.

         I thought that was odd.

         Mr. Thompson is a founding member of an organization
         called the Community Council for Free Expression, based
         at Trinity Assembly of God Church.  This organization
         has raised thousands of dollars for John Freshwater's
         legal challenges, including his $ 1 million lawsuit against
         the school board.

         So Thompson is privately raising money so Freshwater
         can drag out his dismissal hearing, costing taxpayers
         hundreds of thousands of dollars, but then publicly
         states, how concerned he is about the financial status
         of the district.

         Sounds like a bank robber accusing the bank of not
         having enough money.
         
         Mr. Thompson also said on the radio that he and
         Robert Kirk share the same leadership philosophy. Does
         that include deceiving the public about one's motives to
         run for school board ?

         Mr. Thompson has been a strong, public supporter and
         close friend of John Freshwater for many years,
         especially during these costly, neverending dismissal
         hearings.

         It is clear to me that a vote for Mr. Thompson and
         Mr. Kirk is a vote to re-instate Freshwater as a teacher
         in the Mount Vernon School District.

         It is a vote to condone religious bigotry in our public
         schools under the disguise of promoting "Christian
         values."

         We need school board members who understand that
         all students have the right to feel safe with their own
         religious views in any Mount Vernon classroom.

         We need board members who will put the Freshwater
         case behind them, look to the future, and concentrate
         on the best educational opportunities for our
         students.


                                                      Allan Bazzoli
                                                      Mount Vernon




                 Thank you, Mr. Bazzoli.  Well said.


       
         
         

[seabiscuit]

I'm pretty tired so will keep this short.

Went to the Meet the Candidates Night hosted by Knox County 912 Project tonight. I thought the group managed the event well.

It was evident from their responses to the question I asked that Mr. Kirk and Mr. Thompson are reading these blogs and are a bit defensive about what is being written here.

Since I didn't get to ask/say anything after their answers, I'd like to make a comment. From a conversation I had with a friend earlier today, there would be more than just Jehovah's Witnesses (not to be confused with Seventh Day Adventists) that might have conflict with attending a graduation ceremony at another denomination's church. Also Mr. Thompson reminded us that "the Christm.., I mean Holiday program is held at the Nazarene College church". Mr. Thompson acted like I had "omitted this" from my question but since West and East Schools (where my children went) had their Holiday program at the Memorial Theatre, NO, I didn't remember that some of the other schools had their's at the Naz church or I would have included that in my question but thanks for reminding me.

It seemed apparent from the comments and questioning that Mr. Kirk should follow up with either local or state legal entities to ensure that there will not be a conflict of interest should he be elected.

[seabiscuit]

phred

Thanks for copying the Bazzoli letter.  It was well written and a pretty good sumation of what my feelings are. 

[phred]

I'm pretty tired so will keep this short.

Went to the Meet the Candidates Night hosted by Knox County 912 Project tonight. I thought the group managed the event well.

It was evident from their responses to the question I asked that Mr. Kirk and Mr. Thompson are reading these blogs and are a bit defensive about what is being written here.

Since I didn't get to ask/say anything after their answers, I'd like to make a comment. From a conversation I had with a friend earlier today, there would be more than just Jehovah's Witnesses (not to be confused with Seventh Day Adventists) that might have conflict with attending a graduation ceremony at another denomination's church. Also Mr. Thompson reminded us that "the Christm.., I mean Holiday program is held at the Nazarene College church". Mr. Thompson acted like I had "omitted this" from my question but since West and East Schools (where my children went) had their Holiday program at the Memorial Theatre, NO, I didn't remember that some of the other schools had their's at the Naz church or I would have included that in my question but thanks for reminding me.

It seemed apparent from the comments and questioning that Mr. Kirk should follow up with either local or state legal entities to ensure that there will not be a conflict of interest should he be elected.

           Very interesting, Seabiscuit.   Thanks.

[cateyes]

 I was at the Tuesday meeting of the candidates also....but I have a different take on it...

Mr Thompson made clear statments...he believes that IF policies had been clearly written. to tell teachers/employees what they could and could not do and that PROPER documentation had been done......things could have been avoided as what is taking place now.

 I have to agree with that..it is the Super's job and the boards reponsibility(previous board) to see that policies are in place and they are within legal bounds.

Now I will say again...Mr Freshwater is within HIS RIGHTS to proceed in court with a challenge to his being released. WHY do some have issues with HIS RIGHTS...previous administrators did NOT do THEIR JOBS...and THAT is how we got where we are today.

Oh and I got a feeling if you look behind the scenes of Allan Bazzoli  letter there is more to his story then meets the eye.

By the way, I have friends that are friends with some I choose not to be friends with...BUT my friends can  still  carry out a good job even if I dont like some of who they hang with....

I spoke individual with three of the candidates..(would have the fouth but they were not availabe). to ask more questions..

I suggest you ALL do your own research and make a descion on your PERONAL knowledge/information..not hearsay.

[SeaBreeze]

To me, Mr. Thompson has a hidden agenda.  To me, THAT is why he is laying low now in his support of Mr. Freshwater. 
Cateyes, Mr. Freshwater DOES have the right to take the school board to court, but this "hearing" or whatever it is, has been postponed TOOO MANY times and is wasting taxpayers money. 
AND, it is NOT about a Bible on the desk.  It is about disobeying an employer (insubordination comes to mind here).  It is about causing harm to a student.  It is about having the class say a word (I think it was "hear"...don't remember but my daughter was in his class)...whenever they were discussing evolution or anything HE did not agree with. 
To me, it is a conflict of interest for Mr. Thompson to be on the BOE when he is on a board who is RAISING MONEY for MR. Freshwater. 
To me, Mr. Kirk also should not be on the board due to his conflict of interest as well.

Sorry, but my support lays with Paula Barone or ANYONE else but those two.

[seabiscuit]

cateyes

The reason I brought up the issue about the Nazarene Church use is that as a district we need to be more cognizant and sensitive of things that could be legally problematic or that we've never really given much thought to....."we just do it because that's the way we've always done it".  If we have learned anything from the Freshwater situation is that there are legal pitfalls that a district can fall into if they are not more proactive.   As you say, we need to establish more clear cut guidelines.  My friend that I referred to in the previous post has been a supporter of John Freshwater.  It wasn't until this very thing came up that she realized how something that others would see as "no big deal" would've caused her great strife as a teenager.  Should we just "poo-poo" that?  Isn't that what got us in trouble in the first place?

The statements that Mr. Thompson made last night that concern me most related to being able to do whatever MTV wanted to do without the input of the larger society.  That's part of what got us into this mess.  The Mt. Vernon schools have become a bit "incestuous".  Far too many teachers were born here, graduated High school here, gone to the Naz and then become employed here.  There needs to be more diversity in the people that are hired so that new ideas, new thoughts, new perspectives are realized and that's what keeps a school district from becoming stale and vulnerable.  Innovation comes from "thinking outside the box" and more than ever our district needs that not just to prevent another Freshwater incident from happening but to help conquer the financial challenges that will be facing our district in the future.

The idea that what you can and can't do as a teacher can easily be put in two columns, do/don't do, is unrealistic.  Every 2 years I have to take a class on Ethics to maintain my social work license.  It deals with much the same things that our district teachers (as well as others across the country) are trying to deal with and that is knowing what you can and can't do.  There are many variables that can come into play in day to day situations and that will keep you scratching your head at times.  One thing is for sure, if you are thinking about it, you will be more likely to make a better choice before you act or you will take the time to talk with someone to get a fresh perspective which will also help you make a better choice.

The "closed, small town" thinking is even more concerning when you look at the bigger picture of our community and the influences of our schools on the viability of our town.  We live in Mt. Vernon, Ohio but we don't live in a vacuum.  We have two businesses in town that are important in the world marketplace and if we want to stay viable in today's economy, prepare our children for successful futures and entice add'l world class businesses to this area we have to show that we are an intelligent community with great vision.  We don't have to give up our small town appeal, just our small town "inbred" thinking.

Hopefully Ariel and Rolls Royce will be around for many years to come but in light of the changing energy market we might need to be more forward thinking and look to find ways to establish add'l business so that our economy doesn't rely soley on the whims of natural gas which has been tanking in the stock market for the last year.  At this point, we would be hard pressed to lure any add'l businesses to this area with the argument that we have an outstanding school system which will benefit the families that might move here or that our outstanding schools put out an exceptional work force for them to hire from.  Let's face it, many of the "big wigs" at Ariel and Rolls don't send their kids to the schools here or live in Mt. Vernon.  What does it say when a company's HR "strongly suggests" to new management "hirees" that they might want to live elsewhere and commute about the confidence they have in our schools.  I understand that thinking obviously since my children no longer attend school here.

I believe the answer to turning this around is to vote for those candidates that don't demean people who think differently than they do, who are open to new and innovative thinking, that tackle the needs of a changing community and that are not afraid to go against the grain.  I would certainly hope that Mr. Thompson doesn't have a hidden agenda but the truth is voters are not allowed to ask any direct questions of the candidates regarding their stand/thoughts on the Freshwater case.   

cateyes, I applaud you for asking add'l questions of the candidates and I agree with you that more people need to do so.

[cateyes]

Seabiscuit....I agree with most all you said...NOT being from here..I have seen much of the small town thinking...still in a box..but they dont even know it....and yes fresh minds/ideas would benefit...BUT where do you find that?? those running...are much of the same..except Steve Hughes..who is from here..but also has lived in LA and was exposed to several different types of schools..

As far as the others...hidden agenda...who ever really knows the fullness of why someone runs...but Thompson does have business background...and he has been influenced by family members to think different...career center being part of that....so my thinking is he may have much to offer to help guide this community thru a mess others have left to deal with.

Mr Kirk... I think he should have contacted the Attorney General and ASKED for a legal opinion as to his LEGAL right to hold a board position...and I told him after meeting...certified is that...the SIGNATURES are certified to be eligiable VOTERS...but all can be challenged in court...which is expected.

Me...our community is in too much of a mess..to take a chance on wasting a vote for someone that MIGHT be allowed to stay on the board..