Topic: Photo Critique & Suggestions - brutal honesty

[Old One]

Ok, I'm gonna post some in here and if you hurt me, I'll cry all over this room...but I'm gonna take a chance.  I really need to improve and I would rather learn it from someone who knows.   
So, what should I had done to this one, besides not take it...

Snow is hard enough to take photos of without the added problem of some other colors for reference. However, first improvement for this is to white balance to get rid of that overall blue tint. The shadows will run to a blue cast which is normal. (Oh, and kill the date/time stamp)

This is quick and dirty white balance but I think you'll get the idea.

[Jak]

It was a fresh snow, but it doesn't look like it and there weren't any other tracks but these.   I liked the real thing, but not so much this.

I've played with your photo a bit...



1.  Like Jason said, dump the date stamp
2.  Crop out the distracting stuff on the top
3.  Adjust levels to get more contrast and make the footprints stand out more
4. Use hue/sat to get make snow white instead of blue (overexposing slightly should help when shooting snow).  I actually almost totally desaturated this one.

Now, that's the post processing I did.  As far as subject and aesthetics it just isn't really an interesting shot.  What would make it more interesting?

1.  A different angle.  Possibly shooting from lower and watching the tracks disappear into the distance (I've tried to simulate what a different angle might sort of look like).
2.  Cleaner tracks.  This looks like it was made by an animal with an uneven gate or one that wasn't 'going forward with purpose' (meandering,so to speak). I know you can't go out and tell an animal to make good tracks for you, but some things that look good when you see them just aren't photogenic.

[Old One]

Ok, I have a sort of an internal dilemma going on...

As I look at some of the images posted I can see ways to improve the shot photographically (technically & aesthetically), but I'm hesitant to make honest comments because I don't want to hurt any feelings or bruise any egos.

I've noticed that most of the comments in the competition threads lean towards "ooooh, pretty" when in fact there are ways that the images could be even better.

I thought I'd start this thread and maybe anyone who wants honest critique can post pictures here.  Personally, I find honest opinions much more valuable than a kiss on the A$$... 

Just keep in mind that if you put something up here you should probably be able to take the constructive criticism you might get...

I have a thought - not sure if it's worth all that much, but ... - Why not take an image (perhaps one per week to give anyone who wants to take a shot at post processing) and post for anyone and everyone to modify in an effort to improve the final product. We might all learn a trick or two from seeing results and how they were achieved.

I just did a quick hack on the snow to show sorta what I am getting at.

Comments?

[Jak]

Ok, I have a sort of an internal dilemma going on...

As I look at some of the images posted I can see ways to improve the shot photographically (technically & aesthetically), but I'm hesitant to make honest comments because I don't want to hurt any feelings or bruise any egos.

I've noticed that most of the comments in the competition threads lean towards "ooooh, pretty" when in fact there are ways that the images could be even better.

I thought I'd start this thread and maybe anyone who wants honest critique can post pictures here.  Personally, I find honest opinions much more valuable than a kiss on the A$$... 

Just keep in mind that if you put something up here you should probably be able to take the constructive criticism you might get...

I have a thought - not sure if it's worth all that much, but ... - Why not take an image (perhaps one per week to give anyone who wants to take a shot at post processing) and post for anyone and everyone to modify in an effort to improve the final product. We might all learn a trick or two from seeing results and how they were achieved.

I just did a quick hack on the snow to show sorta what I am getting at.

Comments?

I think that's a good idea, but maybe in a separate post processing practice thread.  Actually, what I'd really like is a 3rd competition category with no holds barred so that people could enter their processed images if they wanted to...

What SDB posted is more like what I was getting at here.  My intention in this thread was to try to help people take better shots to begin with.  Although I don't see a problem with manipulating a photo, I do agree with Jason to an extent that the image should be a good one before post processing.

[jasonb911]

You know what i mean, or at least I hope you would.  Every...and I mean almost EVERY "pro" wedding and senior portrait photographer has books of them these days.  Its like they are proud of them or something that hey I can still color between the lines.  Photos like this are a dime a dozen and in an open contest amongst other well put together images I will vote them down. 

As for lacking the ball, yes there are shots where without the ball you are capturing the expressions and the feelings, but there are a great deal posted in papers throughout Ohio...and locally that are lacking it, and the image lacks the emotion.  If there is no emotion, AND no ball, you are lost.  Where should the eyes go.  Most of the time if my image does not have the ball in it, its not getting printed or published, I won't even submit it. 

Jak, I'm not picking on you, so please don't feel that way.  I'm just getting sick of the GWC's out there that are pulling this crap with photography and letting software take over for the lack of ability to do a decent job.  The amount of processing these days has done to the photography industry what the lower costing consumer digital cameras have done to it.  "I can photoshop that," has lowered the bar in the industry. 

Have you looked recently at Craigslist to see the number of photographer ads on there.  Query some of them, you'll be shocked at answers you get back.

Pet peeves

3.  Spot coloring of images.  It was cool long ago, it was cool when it made a comeback with digital.  Its gotten old again.  If they meant for things to be spot colored, the Canon and Nikon gods would have given us a button to do spot coloring.

Your opinion may be that you don't like it, but there are many who still happen to like it (myself included).

5.  Sports photos that are lacking the ball.  If it's just out of the frame, chances are you are losing the real feeling.

Not necessarily...   





BIGGEST PET PEEVE...  People who photoshop the ever living crap out of each and every single photo that they take.  Seriously, spend more time composing a great image from start to finish and you wouldn't need to put filters and effects on to make it look decent.  Did I mention instead of filters, editing, and photoshop that you should worry more about composition?

I think I've responded to this one before somewhere, but will say it again.  You can be a "photo purist" if that is how you feel about it, but you can't make everyone else feel the same way.  I think you're in the minority on that one.  Post processing is a fact of life.  I'd even go as far as to say that it's an art form in itself.  Before digital, photographers used tricks in the darkroom to achieve the same effects (it was just more tedious and time consuming).  Even Ansel Adams used darkroom 'trickery' when printing his images.  If photoshopping is your biggest pet peeve, I see a lot of teeth-grinding in your future.  I'd suggest you do your thing and don't get all "peeved" over someone else's thing...   

[mtvguy]

GWC = Guy With a Camera

[Steve.Deserved.Better]

Thanks to all of you.    I get the date thing (I should have mentioned, I forgot it was on.  I use the camera for date specific things that need to see the date). 

The rest of the comments were very interesting.   The 'white balance' lingo, isn't in my vocabulary, so that tells you I'm a total novice.   Like Jak pointed out, it was more of a bad shot to begin with.  I think I got carried away with the fascination of the lone prints and probably saw more in my mind's eye than was captured on film.

I'll look up the white balance thing and Jak, I will try and keep my shot in mind and not get trigger happy before the shot is ready to shoot.  It wasn't like the prints were going to disappear ....

I like this.  I learned a few things.   First and foremost..........REMEMBER THE DATE STAMP!     

[jasonb911]

Don't feel bad, snow is a difficult subject to shoot and poses a great number of challenges.  As for getting trigger happy, DO get trigger happy.  Try different settings, experiment, see what happens with the settings. 

Thanks to all of you.    I get the date thing (I should have mentioned, I forgot it was on.  I use the camera for date specific things that need to see the date). 

The rest of the comments were very interesting.   The 'white balance' lingo, isn't in my vocabulary, so that tells you I'm a total novice.   Like Jak pointed out, it was more of a bad shot to begin with.  I think I got carried away with the fascination of the lone prints and probably saw more in my mind's eye than was captured on film.

I'll look up the white balance thing and Jak, I will try and keep my shot in mind and not get trigger happy before the shot is ready to shoot.  It wasn't like the prints were going to disappear ....

I like this.  I learned a few things.   First and foremost..........REMEMBER THE DATE STAMP!     

[Steve.Deserved.Better]

Thanks Jason, I love nature shots and yes, emotional shots.    I get so overwhelmed when I see gorgeous scenery and if I have a camera handy, I try to capture it.  Yet, when I put it on the PC, it loses the enormousness of the scene.  Did that make sense?  I get almost giddy, when this happens, only to feel deflated seeing it on the monitor. 

Yet, I'll look at images, some of you have taken and I feel that same elation because somehow you managed to capture the bigger picture as if I were standing there.

I have to admit, my camera is more of a point and click Kodak and the different settings on it are more for ??? than my using them.  I have not taken the time to really know my camera, like some of you know yours.   So...I do only have myself to blame for some of my lackluster photos.

[Old One]

I am in total agreement on the "shoot more" and "experiment."

As for "white balance" ... The human eye does not see things like the silicon chip in your digital camera. The camera makers (partly thanks to inexpensive and very powerful microprocesser chips) create programs in the camera so that what it captures more closely mimics how your eye-to-brain connection translates what is seen. However, there are trade-offs so white is not always exactly white and black is not always exactly black. To white balance a picture (which I have come to the conclusion is an art form within itself) you take a sample from the image and tell your software, "This is white." Then do the same thing with black. The theory being that if both endpoints of the spectrum are accurate, all the rainbow of colors in between will also be accurate. The rub of course is that in most photos it is difficult to find spots of pure white and pure black to sample.

In Photoshop, the "curves" menu is where this is accomplished. There is an auto button as well as color pickers for black, white, and grey. Many cameras have white balance settings to correct for various types of lighting. ie Indoor, outdoor, etc. that can be used prior to clicking the shutter. When rocks come to hard places, I think Jason has still said it best, "...experiment."

I hope this helps rather than confuses.

Don't feel bad, snow is a difficult subject to shoot and poses a great number of challenges.  As for getting trigger happy, DO get trigger happy.  Try different settings, experiment, see what happens with the settings. 

Thanks to all of you.    I get the date thing (I should have mentioned, I forgot it was on.  I use the camera for date specific things that need to see the date). 

The rest of the comments were very interesting.   The 'white balance' lingo, isn't in my vocabulary, so that tells you I'm a total novice.   Like Jak pointed out, it was more of a bad shot to begin with.  I think I got carried away with the fascination of the lone prints and probably saw more in my mind's eye than was captured on film.

I'll look up the white balance thing and Jak, I will try and keep my shot in mind and not get trigger happy before the shot is ready to shoot.  It wasn't like the prints were going to disappear ....

I like this.  I learned a few things.   First and foremost..........REMEMBER THE DATE STAMP!     

[Steve.Deserved.Better]

It did Old.    That must be what all those little settings that show, 'flower', 'sun', 'palm tree', etc. mean.  I just didn't/haven't taken the time to learn about them.   I like my camera.  It even takes a great video.  It won't adjust zoom if I'm in record mode, but other than that, I like it also.

I haven't had time to play with it lately, but I have lots of pics to put on to be analyzed and critique.  Some, I dearly love and if they can be salvaged with a little tweaking, so be it....

[Jak]

Don't feel bad, snow is a difficult subject to shoot and poses a great number of challenges.  As for getting trigger happy, DO get trigger happy.  Try different settings, experiment, see what happens with the settings. 

Thanks to all of you.    I get the date thing (I should have mentioned, I forgot it was on.  I use the camera for date specific things that need to see the date). 

The rest of the comments were very interesting.   The 'white balance' lingo, isn't in my vocabulary, so that tells you I'm a total novice.   Like Jak pointed out, it was more of a bad shot to begin with.  I think I got carried away with the fascination of the lone prints and probably saw more in my mind's eye than was captured on film.

I'll look up the white balance thing and Jak, I will try and keep my shot in mind and not get trigger happy before the shot is ready to shoot.  It wasn't like the prints were going to disappear ....

I like this.  I learned a few things.   First and foremost..........REMEMBER THE DATE STAMP!     

Jason's right, DO get trigger happy.  I didn't mean don't shoot - I probably wasn't clear about what I meant.  While Mom & I were at the lake this week I took well over 500 shots - I got about 8 that I liked well enough to show anyone. 

(Thank GAWD for digital - I can't imagine what that would have cost if film and processing were involved!  )

I think the point is to learn what's a keeper and what's not (and why).

[Jak]

You know what i mean, or at least I hope you would.  Every...and I mean almost EVERY "pro" wedding and senior portrait photographer has books of them these days.  Its like they are proud of them or something that hey I can still color between the lines.  Photos like this are a dime a dozen and in an open contest amongst other well put together images I will vote them down. 

As for lacking the ball, yes there are shots where without the ball you are capturing the expressions and the feelings, but there are a great deal posted in papers throughout Ohio...and locally that are lacking it, and the image lacks the emotion.  If there is no emotion, AND no ball, you are lost.  Where should the eyes go.  Most of the time if my image does not have the ball in it, its not getting printed or published, I won't even submit it. 

Jak, I'm not picking on you, so please don't feel that way.  I'm just getting sick of the GWC's out there that are pulling this crap with photography and letting software take over for the lack of ability to do a decent job.  The amount of processing these days has done to the photography industry what the lower costing consumer digital cameras have done to it.  "I can photoshop that," has lowered the bar in the industry. 

Have you looked recently at Craigslist to see the number of photographer ads on there.  Query some of them, you'll be shocked at answers you get back.

Pet peeves

3.  Spot coloring of images.  It was cool long ago, it was cool when it made a comeback with digital.  Its gotten old again.  If they meant for things to be spot colored, the Canon and Nikon gods would have given us a button to do spot coloring.

Your opinion may be that you don't like it, but there are many who still happen to like it (myself included).

5.  Sports photos that are lacking the ball.  If it's just out of the frame, chances are you are losing the real feeling.

Not necessarily...   





BIGGEST PET PEEVE...  People who photoshop the ever living crap out of each and every single photo that they take.  Seriously, spend more time composing a great image from start to finish and you wouldn't need to put filters and effects on to make it look decent.  Did I mention instead of filters, editing, and photoshop that you should worry more about composition?

I think I've responded to this one before somewhere, but will say it again.  You can be a "photo purist" if that is how you feel about it, but you can't make everyone else feel the same way.  I think you're in the minority on that one.  Post processing is a fact of life.  I'd even go as far as to say that it's an art form in itself.  Before digital, photographers used tricks in the darkroom to achieve the same effects (it was just more tedious and time consuming).  Even Ansel Adams used darkroom 'trickery' when printing his images.  If photoshopping is your biggest pet peeve, I see a lot of teeth-grinding in your future.  I'd suggest you do your thing and don't get all "peeved" over someone else's thing...   

Jason, I completely agree with you on the GWC issues.  There are a lot of hacks out there who rely on post processing for everything.  And there are plenty of consumers who are more interested in how much it's going to cost them than how good the quality is. But there were a lot of hacks with film cameras years ago too.  I think you'll always have them no matter what.  There are people who think if they can afford a camera and editing program that they are a photographer, but it's always been that way.

I'll admit I post process.  Mainly to make up for my POS Canon that won't do what I want it to, but it's what I can afford so I have to make the best of it.  I do try to start out with an image that's the best I can coax out of that dang camera.  And sometimes I do post process the heck out of something just because I like the art of it. 

It's not necessarily that I think you're picking on me (ok, maybe a little), but the 'this is right and this is wrong' blanket statements and the pedantic delivery tend to put me on the defensive.  None of us were born with a camera in our hands - we all had to learn somehow. 

There have been so many times in my life when I thought I was doing a wonderful job only to find out someone else was doing it better and that I still had a lot to learn.  And I pray that I never stop realizing that I have much more to learn.  But there have been many small victories along the way that kept me going (my first magazine cover, my first gallery show, my first award, etc.).  I look back on some of the things from those times and wonder how I ever achieved anything with those images because they seem so laughable to me now, but if I never made those small steps forward I probably would have just given up. 

My opinion is that this is art, and art really has no rules except that it is what you want it to be. 

Lord, I didn't mean to ramble on like that.  I hope all of that makes sense to someone besides me...    

[Airborne]

I have a great idea...live in the moment, enjoy the view, when you die those 50,000 perfect photos on your hard drive get replaced when the new person in your ex's life starts surfing the internet for porn.

I laugh my ass off when I see a GWC at a game acting all serious and shit...his daughter says "dad, did you see that play" and dad says "no, but let me look at the photos and see what I actually saw".

Live in the moment, not through a piece of shit camera lens

[Steve.Deserved.Better]

I have a great idea...live in the moment, enjoy the view, when you die those 50,000 perfect photos on your hard drive get replaced when the new person in your ex's life starts surfing the internet for porn.

I laugh my ass off when I see a GWC at a game acting all serious and shit...his daughter says "dad, did you see that play" and dad says "no, but let me look at the photos and see what I actually saw".

Live in the moment, not through a piece of shit camera lens

Yeah, but I wanna see pictures.  Especially when my CRS kicks in.   Someone can point and tell me who it was, when I'm leafing through the picture book and drooling all over myself.   

I love pictures.   It's my quiet place to go when I get out of hand....