Topic: September Competition Discussion

[mtvguy]

To be used to discuss or comment on photos submitted to the September Competitions.

[phred]

   



        The topic of pets for this month, with no time limit,
        sounds great !



       

[ancients]

I still love that running dog, can't help It.

[ancients]

Old One

I see the look of a predator.   

[mtvguy]

Old,

Very nice photo, setting the bar high!!

mtvguy

[Old One]

Old One

I see the look of a predator.   

Nah, that's Emmett (We're not sure if he's named after Emmett Kelly, or Danial Decater Emmett when he was a minstral show performer) but he's just a kitten who thinks he's all grown up.

[ancients]

   I bet the mice do not overrun your house.     

[Old One]

  I bet the mice do not overrun your house.     

With four resident cats, mice are the very least of our worries. (They're all long-haired so stepping on a hairball in your bare feet is far more of a concern.) [chuckle] Look to meet the other three before this contest is over.

[cateyes]

 Old One that is an awesome pic....

[phred]

 


     Old One, you captured Emmett's classic
     feline features.  Great picture.

     Considering the other members in this biological
     family, lions, tigers, jaguars, it is so
     great to have a domesticated miniature.

[jasonb911]

Ok, I have to pipe up finally and just come out to say it.  I was getting ready to post in the September non-competition forum when I noticed the disclaimer posted by Jak about not being able to post in the competition section due to the restrictions placed upon post processing.  The comment really got me thinking after I have worked with no less than 1700 images since Thursday night and had to meet numerous deadlines for print and for web.  Looking at this process of constantly having to post-process, I can't imagine how many weeks it would have taken to turn out the amount of work I have done over the last three days of shooting. 

The question that comes to mind as a photographer is "why do you have to post process everything so much and rely on post processing as a crutch?"  As an artist I can possibly see the need to post process a piece of artwork to capture someones eye, but in capturing the image, the feeling, the moment, did not take several steps, editing, post processing and involving software to assist. 

Did the horse really look like that?  When you shoot portraiture, do you overly post process the work to the point where it no longer looks like the subject at hand? 

A good photo, taken accurately should not require post processing to the point of changing curves, changing everything upside down, playing with HDR, and going to the point of no longer looking real.  Know your f-stops, know your lighting conditions and the amount of noise your ISO will give you, and for God's sake be in FOCUS, don't rely on sharpen and "definition" to help get it in focus.  If you're trying to make a go at a business and you have to constantly edit and post process everything that comes through the camera, you are losing money in your time spent to create a product. 

Post processing to correct minor flaws or to overcome and abnormality is one thing, post processing to constantly overcome correctable issues is a totally different thing.

Want to see a true competition, shoot it, take your card out of the camera, and submit the image as is.  Hang it out there, let YOUR skills, not those of software and technology pave the way to greatness.  Check your software, your digital filters, the whole kit and caboodle at the door.

END RANT...

[Jak]

And I've held my tongue with you for way too long as well...   

I didn't say I HAD to post process it.  I do it because I LIKE it, I LIKE the way it looks and I LIKE playing with it - and btw I like spot color too...

Go direct your pissy, snobby rants at someone else.  We've been here before and I'm tired of your "it ain't REAL if it's post processed" crap. You seem to think you know everything about everything.  You've got quite a freaking ego on you, son.  How do you get that enormous head to fit inside your fire truck?

I've asked about a separate category for anything goes before. It's called 'digital art' in case you've never heard of it.

Now go play with your little boy toys and get over yourself and I'll get back to playing with my FAKE PHOTO TRICKERY.

 

Ok, I have to pipe up finally and just come out to say it.  I was getting ready to post in the September non-competition forum when I noticed the disclaimer posted by Jak about not being able to post in the competition section due to the restrictions placed upon post processing.  The comment really got me thinking after I have worked with no less than 1700 images since Thursday night and had to meet numerous deadlines for print and for web.  Looking at this process of constantly having to post-process, I can't imagine how many weeks it would have taken to turn out the amount of work I have done over the last three days of shooting. 

The question that comes to mind as a photographer is "why do you have to post process everything so much and rely on post processing as a crutch?"  As an artist I can possibly see the need to post process a piece of artwork to capture someones eye, but in capturing the image, the feeling, the moment, did not take several steps, editing, post processing and involving software to assist. 

Did the horse really look like that?  When you shoot portraiture, do you overly post process the work to the point where it no longer looks like the subject at hand? 

A good photo, taken accurately should not require post processing to the point of changing curves, changing everything upside down, playing with HDR, and going to the point of no longer looking real.  Know your f-stops, know your lighting conditions and the amount of noise your ISO will give you, and for God's sake be in FOCUS, don't rely on sharpen and "definition" to help get it in focus.  If you're trying to make a go at a business and you have to constantly edit and post process everything that comes through the camera, you are losing money in your time spent to create a product. 

Post processing to correct minor flaws or to overcome and abnormality is one thing, post processing to constantly overcome correctable issues is a totally different thing.

Want to see a true competition, shoot it, take your card out of the camera, and submit the image as is.  Hang it out there, let YOUR skills, not those of software and technology pave the way to greatness.  Check your software, your digital filters, the whole kit and caboodle at the door.

END RANT...

[jasonb911]

It's not snobbery and its not egotistical, I knew long before I piped up the last time I mentioned something in the competition section that you were processing and playing with the photos and could probably pick several of them apart.  When you stare at photos day in and day out for a job you can tell a lot about what has and hasn't been done. 

It isn't my first rodeo with competitions, judging, and being published.  Yes I know about digital art, as I have some pieces going to a national pharma ad campaign later this year that would fit well into that category.  Would I enter them into a photography contest, most certainly not. 

If you're going to process something to a certain point, at least have the decency to fess up to the other users so they don't get this false sense of wow this fell right out of the camera with no work at all. 

FYI, it fits well inside the fire truck with room to spare. 

We're having a photography competition here on MVOhio, I must have missed the digital art competition somewhere along the line. 

I totally missed whatever slam you tossed my way with boy toys, where ever that came from, and whatever meaning you had behind that.  Sorry, the only toys here are awesome cameras, great lenses, tons of sweet guns, and plenty of technology goodies. 

And I've held my tongue with you for way too long as well...   

I didn't say I HAD to post process it.  I do it because I LIKE it, I LIKE the way it looks and I LIKE playing with it - and btw I like spot color too...

Go direct your pissy, snobby rants at someone else.  We've been here before and I'm tired of your "it ain't REAL if it's post processed" crap. You seem to think you know everything about everything.  You've got quite a freaking ego on you, son.  How do you get that enormous head to fit inside your fire truck?

I've asked about a separate category for anything goes before. It's called 'digital art' in case you've never heard of it.

Now go play with your little boy toys and get over yourself and I'll get back to playing with my FAKE PHOTO TRICKERY.

 

Ok, I have to pipe up finally and just come out to say it.  I was getting ready to post in the September non-competition forum when I noticed the disclaimer posted by Jak about not being able to post in the competition section due to the restrictions placed upon post processing.  The comment really got me thinking after I have worked with no less than 1700 images since Thursday night and had to meet numerous deadlines for print and for web.  Looking at this process of constantly having to post-process, I can't imagine how many weeks it would have taken to turn out the amount of work I have done over the last three days of shooting. 

The question that comes to mind as a photographer is "why do you have to post process everything so much and rely on post processing as a crutch?"  As an artist I can possibly see the need to post process a piece of artwork to capture someones eye, but in capturing the image, the feeling, the moment, did not take several steps, editing, post processing and involving software to assist. 

Did the horse really look like that?  When you shoot portraiture, do you overly post process the work to the point where it no longer looks like the subject at hand? 

A good photo, taken accurately should not require post processing to the point of changing curves, changing everything upside down, playing with HDR, and going to the point of no longer looking real.  Know your f-stops, know your lighting conditions and the amount of noise your ISO will give you, and for God's sake be in FOCUS, don't rely on sharpen and "definition" to help get it in focus.  If you're trying to make a go at a business and you have to constantly edit and post process everything that comes through the camera, you are losing money in your time spent to create a product. 

Post processing to correct minor flaws or to overcome and abnormality is one thing, post processing to constantly overcome correctable issues is a totally different thing.

Want to see a true competition, shoot it, take your card out of the camera, and submit the image as is.  Hang it out there, let YOUR skills, not those of software and technology pave the way to greatness.  Check your software, your digital filters, the whole kit and caboodle at the door.

END RANT...

[cateyes]

 Jak...I think that would be neat to see a no bars locked category for any post processing...I would enjoy the view of it..and I am sure others would also..digital art has it place for many and I always love a new view of what the world has to offer.

 Spot color..remember when that hit..and oh the PRICES of some of it when I was at a judged show up by Cleveland.

[Jak]

I'm not stupid, Jason.  I knew what you thought and what you were getting at when you commented on one of my photos that 'that lens isn't usually that sharp'.  No Jason, it usually isn't because it's a stupid cheap kit lens, but it was sharp that time (yes, I do know how to use a tripod, remote release, mirror lock-up and a shutter speed of 1/1250).  When I've entered photos into these MVO competitions, I've followed the rules - basic post processing, which is allowed (usually crop, hue/sat, levels, sharpen, dodge/burn, etc.).  And I believe I've listed the post processing done on most.

Not that I need to justify myself to you, but here is the original and the submitted version of the one you questioned in particular - you know, the one where you only insinuated that I was a liar instead of coming right out and calling me one (and yes, I knew at the time that was what you were doing and chose not to make an issue of it).  BTW, the Exif data for the before/after is supplied below as well.  It is readily available attached to the image on Flickr, just in case you intend to accuse me of doctoring that info too. 

After looking at the images and the Exif data, why don't you tell me just what exactly is it that you think I've done, Jason?  Do they look very much different from each other?  No, I thought not.  Unless perhaps you consider adding a border something to cry 'foul' about...

I presume that you are done calling me a 'liar' now, and that we will get back to the topic at hand.



xxIMG_1652 after by JakOfArts, on Flickr



xxIMG_1652 before by JakOfArts, on Flickr

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Date and Time (Digitized)    2010:06:06 08:36:18
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Record Mode    JPEG
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Camera Temperature    33 C
Camera Orientation    Horizontal (normal)
Focus Distance Upper    655.35
Focus Distance Lower    5.27
Color Temperature    5200
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File Index    1652
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Valid AFPoints    7
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Dust Removal Data    (Binary data 1024 bytes, use -b option to extract)
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Sensor Blue Level    0
White Balance Red    0
White Balance Blue    0
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WBShift GM    0
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Color Space    sRGB
VRDOffset    0
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Black Mask Left Border    0
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Black Mask Right Border    0
Black Mask Bottom Border    0
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WB_ RGGBLevels Measured    2518 1023 1024 1380
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Exif data
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Exposure    0.001 sec (1/1250)
Aperture    f/9.0
Focal Length    40 mm
ISO Speed    400
Exposure Bias    0 EV
Flash    Off, Did not fire
X-Resolution    300 dpi
Y-Resolution    300 dpi
Orientation    Horizontal (normal)
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YCbCr Positioning    Co-sited
Exposure Program    Aperture-priority AE
Date and Time (Original)    2010:06:06 08:36:18-04:00
Date and Time (Digitized)    2010:06:06 08:36:18
Metering Mode    Center-weighted average
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Sub Sec Time Original    03
Sub Sec Time Digitized    03
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Focal Plane Y-Resolution    4445.96912521441 dpi
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White Balance    Auto
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Flash Return    No return detection
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