Topic: Is having a Bible in the classroom a Mount Vernon Teacher's right?

[82]

There is a reason that an employer accepting public funds cannot protray any particular religion.  Mr. Freshwater is paid from public funds.  He can tape the Bible to his forehead if he wants...he just can't do it on company time...not when he is suppose to be working...not when he is receiving my tax dollars.

Big deal!  It's a CLOSED Bible.  Besides, it appears a majority of the "public" who "funds" his salary support him.
What's next...are you going to demand that all cross necklaces be removed from all "public" funded employees?  And what about the WWJD wristbands...are they not religous displays?  Must everyone remove those before they enter the school?

[SeaBreeze]

I have no problem with Mr. Freshwater having a BOOK on his desk.  I have no problem with that BOOK being a BIBLE.  I would have no problem if that book was the Koran, or whatever book any other religious person chooses to have on his desk.  It is a CLOSED BOOK. 
Unless kids have super human powers and can read through the cover, I don't think that BOOK is going to corrupt their minds.

I have a little religious glass decoration on my desk at work.  It was given to me by a patient and has special meaning.  Would I remove it if asked? No, it is my right to decorate MY work with one simple small object that gives me comfort on extremely stressful days.

[SeaBreeze]

Phred, if school is for the kids, then why is this even an issue.
ONE CHILD complained.  How many other children are protesting now? 

[phred]

It's three-feet high with..... well, you know.

C'mon phred, I assume you're kidding.

 

           Not.  No one else in the family wanted it.
           It's from the Sherman's of Watertown, New York.

           Actually, if you think you have problems......
           you take one look at this and well..... it stops
           you dead in your tracks.... that maybe your
           problems aren't so.... big.

           It's from the 1800's.  My Mom's cousin had it.
           The original red paint is still visible. 

           I'm sort of the dumping ground for family stuff
           that no one else wants........ but they think
           'somebody' ought to keep it...........

[sammy]

I am wondering how the child that made the complaint is faring through this ordeal. Kids can be very cruel.

[82]

Sorry phred, I wasn't referring to the cross itself....it seems like an interesting piece actually.    I was just thinking about a 3-foot cross sitting on a teacher's desk, and how that would be a bit more distracting.

[phred]

I have a little religious glass decoration on my desk at work.  It was given to me by a patient and has special meaning.  Would I remove it if asked? No, it is my right to decorate MY work with one simple small object that gives me comfort on extremely stressful days.

            Good point.   And this is a wonderful example.

            This is only my view...........

            This example is different.  There are no underage children
            sitting around your desk, everyday, over whom you judge
            their work, their performance, and grade them..... grade
            their papers, their tests......... 
             

[stockader]

Actually we have been talking about an inanimat object.  We all now know what Mr. Freshwater's beliefs are.  If he were so inclined, he may very well be able to preach on his religious beliefs without the assistance of physical aides.   But that is not the case here.  He has not been accused of pushing his religion on anyone.  He simply has a text book on his desk that happens to be the bible; a historical book of songs, letters and stories.    Why would anyone be afraid of this book.

[phred]

            Ch 4 TV - it's going to be on !

[blanche]

nahhhhh, No kudo's please.

Tears, please.

I fear I may have a Democrat on my hands.

You know how I know this?  Because what he did today, he did because he thought it was the right thing to do....

NOT because it was REALLY the right thing to do, but because it "made him feel good". 

"feel good" action is a tell tale sign of a Democrat.

EGADS......

Forest,

In that crazy way of balancing itself that our world has...I fear I may have a Republican on my hands.  My 17-year-old son is showing signs of leaning to the right.

Why can't he just be GAY?

[stockader]

For all who think the book should be removed,  Maybe you should be requesting that Mr. Freshwater should also be removed because it is more likely that his religious beliefs will accidental spew out of him than the contexts of the bible will spew out of it.  Removing his bible will not change his beliefs, nor will it change the man.  

I support Mr. Freshwater's position.   He is not violating any rules, separation of church and state is a bunch of crap and He has every right to have the book on his desk.

[sammy]

I have a little religious glass decoration on my desk at work.  It was given to me by a patient and has special meaning.  Would I remove it if asked? No, it is my right to decorate MY work with one simple small object that gives me comfort on extremely stressful days.

            Good point.   And this is a wonderful example.

            This is only my view...........

            This example is different.  There are no underage children
            sitting around your desk, everyday, over whom you judge
            their work, their performance, and grade them..... grade
            their papers, their tests......... 
             

Working with that age group of children, maybe seeing or touching the Bible keeps him grounded when judging their work, their performance and grading their papers and tests.   

The Bible is not opened, it is not used in the classroom for instruction, it is not read to the children...it is a mere desk decoration, a book...laying on a desk. It has been laying there for 20 years. There have been no reports of any children being harmed by it. Just maybe this teacher has gained such support and respect from his students because of that book laying on his desk.

[phred]

There is a reason that an employer accepting public funds cannot protray any particular religion.  Mr. Freshwater is paid from public funds.  He can tape the Bible to his forehead if he wants...he just can't do it on company time...not when he is suppose to be working...not when he is receiving my tax dollars.

Big deal!  It's a CLOSED Bible.  Besides, it appears a majority of the "public" who "funds" his salary support him.
What's next...are you going to demand that all cross necklaces be removed from all "public" funded employees?  And what about the WWJD wristbands...are they not religous displays?  Must everyone remove those before they enter the school?

            Interesting aspects here.

            The US Supreme Court has upheld local autonomy of our
            schools ( run by the people through their reps on the
            board).

            So the Board could do a referendum to see what the
            community wants for any and all religious items. 

            Or they could decide that this one item is OK.... and see
            what happens. 

            (In London City Schools, the ACLU sued the school
            district regarding Daubenmire's religious actions
            with the kids.  The district's insurance carrier settled
            out of court - that was $18,000 going to the ACLU;
            Daubenmire's religious activities with the kids was
            stopped.)       

            ________________________________________________


            With the Holy Cross necklaces and the WWJD wristbands,
            this is also local determination within each school district.

            So, thinking this through, Mount Vernon is predominantly
            white Christian, so this shouldn't be a problem.  In this
            district, what a person wears is a personal choice.

            In the school districts where there is a dress code, these
            may or may not be allowed.

            This is decided, locally.... as this Bible-on-the-desk will be,
            too.

       

[blanche]

If my employer asks me to remove a religious icon from my (well, really HIS) desk, I do have rights...the right to choose to obey my employer or resign from my position.

Mr. Freshwater, while I understand (and for the most part, share) his beliefs, is setting a poor example for our children--that of flouting authority.  I've taught my children that they will always be under someone's authority, whether it be a teacher, school board, employer, law enforcement personnel, or other government official.  Deal with it.

If Mr. Freshwater wants to have a bible on his desk, he needs to teach at a private, Christian school.  If his intention is to have the bible for his own personal enrichment (which I support), there shouldn't be any problem with him putting it inside the desk.

However, if he is encouraging discussion of religion by displaying the bible in view of the students (which strikes me as manipulative, by the way), he is usurping MY right as a parent to give my children religious instruction as I see fit.  Please do your evangelizing somewhere else, Mr. Freshwater.

[Muffin]