0 Members and 5 Guests are viewing this topic.
I found this on the middle school website. Why is THIS allowed on SCHOOL PROPERTY????Isn't THIS promoting CHRISTIANITY?????http://www.mt-vernon.k12.oh.us/middle/Announcements - April 17FCA tomorrow morning will be at 7:00 in the choir room. Pastor Finnell will be the speaker.I say let him keep the Bible and get rid of the school board and superintendent.
Quote from: phred Quote from: sammy Has anyone said that Mr freshwater has encouraged discussion of religion? Does having a book laying out in plain view necessarily encourage discussion of that book? I am thinking since this Bible has been on his desk for 20 years, it is just a well know fact among the students and they just look at it as they would any other book laying on a desk. On the other side of this - I caught it somewhere (am still trying to find it/ Rooster heard it too and mentioned it) that he has 9 or so Bibles in his classroom. If this be so, and the kids are just.... now.... noticing one of them.... If, over the 20 years, it took placing nine of them in the classroom to finally get something triggered... Oh! and a poster of the Ten Commandments........ hmmmm.......... I have also wondered why it took 20 years to become an issue. If indeed he had more than that one Bible in the classroom, why are they just now becoming such an issue? Did all the children that have passed through his classroom in the past 20 years not see the Bible or just ignored it, or just didn't think it was a big deal?
Quote from: sammy Has anyone said that Mr freshwater has encouraged discussion of religion? Does having a book laying out in plain view necessarily encourage discussion of that book? I am thinking since this Bible has been on his desk for 20 years, it is just a well know fact among the students and they just look at it as they would any other book laying on a desk. On the other side of this - I caught it somewhere (am still trying to find it/ Rooster heard it too and mentioned it) that he has 9 or so Bibles in his classroom. If this be so, and the kids are just.... now.... noticing one of them.... If, over the 20 years, it took placing nine of them in the classroom to finally get something triggered... Oh! and a poster of the Ten Commandments........ hmmmm..........
Has anyone said that Mr freshwater has encouraged discussion of religion? Does having a book laying out in plain view necessarily encourage discussion of that book? I am thinking since this Bible has been on his desk for 20 years, it is just a well know fact among the students and they just look at it as they would any other book laying on a desk.
Quote from: sammy Quote from: phred Quote from: sammy Has anyone said that Mr freshwater has encouraged discussion of religion? Does having a book laying out in plain view necessarily encourage discussion of that book? I am thinking since this Bible has been on his desk for 20 years, it is just a well know fact among the students and they just look at it as they would any other book laying on a desk. On the other side of this - I caught it somewhere (am still trying to find it/ Rooster heard it too and mentioned it) that he has 9 or so Bibles in his classroom. If this be so, and the kids are just.... now.... noticing one of them.... If, over the 20 years, it took placing nine of them in the classroom to finally get something triggered... Oh! and a poster of the Ten Commandments........ hmmmm.......... I have also wondered why it took 20 years to become an issue. If indeed he had more than that one Bible in the classroom, why are they just now becoming such an issue? Did all the children that have passed through his classroom in the past 20 years not see the Bible or just ignored it, or just didn't think it was a big deal? Channel 10 has a video on their site where they interviewed Short last night. All those details came out last night.
I read on one of the news sites that Mr. Short responded to the question about why Mr. Freshwater was never asked to remove the Bible before (in the past 20 years) and he said he has only been superintendent since January so he didn't know why it wasn't addressed before. Has he forgotten that he was on the Board under Maley?
Quote from: SeaBreeze on April 18, 2008, 06:42:39 AMI found this on the middle school website. Why is THIS allowed on SCHOOL PROPERTY????Isn't THIS promoting CHRISTIANITY?????http://www.mt-vernon.k12.oh.us/middle/Announcements - April 17FCA tomorrow morning will be at 7:00 in the choir room. Pastor Finnell will be the speaker.I say let him keep the Bible and get rid of the school board and superintendent.Is this not in DIRECT violation of school policy????"the district does not allow "devotional exercises or displays of a religious character," (taken from the news article on 10tv's website.) http://www.wbns10tv.com/live/content/local/stories/2008/04/17/bible_teacher.html?sid=102
Muffin, those students are meeting on School property, in the choir room, and having a pastor lead them. Why should my tax dollars go toward the expense of holding a meeting before school on school property, which is in direct violation of school policy. From the limited info given, it does not appear that the policy is only for the teachers to follow, but it is district wide.
Quote from: SeaBreezeQuote from: phred Quote from: SeaBreeze Phred, this is about Mr. Freshwater, not Dave Daubenmire. So what if Daubenmire was at the square as a show of support for Mr. Freshwater. I would bet that he was there because HE taught at MVHS for several years and was also chastised for his religious beliefs as well. Also, what does bringing up Daubenmire's son have to do with Mr. Freshwater? His son was a grown man responsible for his own actions when he was convicted. SeaBreeze, additional information is always offered for the knowledge. I really felt that there was _also_ positive info in those those news articles about Daubenmire and Zachary. And, yes, this is all about Freshwater, isn't it. Yes, it is about Mr. Freshwater, and his right to freedom of speech, and freedom of religion. Having a CLOSED Bible on his desk is not infringing on anyone else's rights. If ya don't want to see the Bible, don't look. SeaBreeze, please stay with me here. I'm not doing such a good job of getting my view expressed here. OK, a closed Bible on the desk is no infringement. A Bible. An icon from which Freshwater (and many other adults) draws strength. OK. If I, as a Christian teacher in the Middle School, draw strength from the cross (as many people do), then I can bring that to class and put it on my desk....... yes ? I won't talk about it; there will be _no_ preaching. It's three-feet high with..... well, you know. It's my freedom of speech; it's my freedom of religion. And we Christians don't demand special treatment that isn't extended to others..... The Bible is Mr. Freshwater's strength; my 3-foot cross is my strength. (And yes, I do have one. Belonged to my ancestor, Rev. Sherman.) So goes the one, so goes they all. This would be OK with you? Yes? Or are you going to persecute me for my beliefs.
Quote from: phred Quote from: SeaBreeze Phred, this is about Mr. Freshwater, not Dave Daubenmire. So what if Daubenmire was at the square as a show of support for Mr. Freshwater. I would bet that he was there because HE taught at MVHS for several years and was also chastised for his religious beliefs as well. Also, what does bringing up Daubenmire's son have to do with Mr. Freshwater? His son was a grown man responsible for his own actions when he was convicted. SeaBreeze, additional information is always offered for the knowledge. I really felt that there was _also_ positive info in those those news articles about Daubenmire and Zachary. And, yes, this is all about Freshwater, isn't it. Yes, it is about Mr. Freshwater, and his right to freedom of speech, and freedom of religion. Having a CLOSED Bible on his desk is not infringing on anyone else's rights. If ya don't want to see the Bible, don't look.
Quote from: SeaBreeze Phred, this is about Mr. Freshwater, not Dave Daubenmire. So what if Daubenmire was at the square as a show of support for Mr. Freshwater. I would bet that he was there because HE taught at MVHS for several years and was also chastised for his religious beliefs as well. Also, what does bringing up Daubenmire's son have to do with Mr. Freshwater? His son was a grown man responsible for his own actions when he was convicted. SeaBreeze, additional information is always offered for the knowledge. I really felt that there was _also_ positive info in those those news articles about Daubenmire and Zachary. And, yes, this is all about Freshwater, isn't it.
Phred, this is about Mr. Freshwater, not Dave Daubenmire. So what if Daubenmire was at the square as a show of support for Mr. Freshwater. I would bet that he was there because HE taught at MVHS for several years and was also chastised for his religious beliefs as well. Also, what does bringing up Daubenmire's son have to do with Mr. Freshwater? His son was a grown man responsible for his own actions when he was convicted.
Quote from: blanche If my employer asks me to remove a religious icon from my (well, really HIS) desk, I do have rights...the right to choose to obey my employer or resign from my position.Mr. Freshwater, while I understand (and for the most part, share) his beliefs, is setting a poor example for our children--that of flouting authority. I've taught my children that they will always be under someone's authority, whether it be a teacher, school board, employer, law enforcement personnel, or other government official. Deal with it.If Mr. Freshwater wants to have a bible on his desk, he needs to teach at a private, Christian school. If his intention is to have the bible for his own personal enrichment (which I support), there shouldn't be any problem with him putting it inside the desk.However, if he is encouraging discussion of religion by displaying the bible in view of the students (which strikes me as manipulative, by the way), he is usurping MY right as a parent to give my children religious instruction as I see fit. Please do your evangelizing somewhere else, Mr. Freshwater. Excellent point. Well said.
If my employer asks me to remove a religious icon from my (well, really HIS) desk, I do have rights...the right to choose to obey my employer or resign from my position.Mr. Freshwater, while I understand (and for the most part, share) his beliefs, is setting a poor example for our children--that of flouting authority. I've taught my children that they will always be under someone's authority, whether it be a teacher, school board, employer, law enforcement personnel, or other government official. Deal with it.If Mr. Freshwater wants to have a bible on his desk, he needs to teach at a private, Christian school. If his intention is to have the bible for his own personal enrichment (which I support), there shouldn't be any problem with him putting it inside the desk.However, if he is encouraging discussion of religion by displaying the bible in view of the students (which strikes me as manipulative, by the way), he is usurping MY right as a parent to give my children religious instruction as I see fit. Please do your evangelizing somewhere else, Mr. Freshwater.
